Shashi Tharoor Minister of State of External Affairs
* I did not do anything "illegal, unethical or immoral"
* Will publish MPLADS funds-use on his website
10 September 2009
'I'm saying think beyond Pakistan. I'm not saying ignore Pakistan'
Author, peacekeeper, refugee worker, human rights activist and now a first-time Member of Parliament from Thiruvananthapuram and Union Minister of State of External Affairs, DR SHASHI THAROOR straddled several worlds of experience. He outlined his vision for diplomacy and development in an exclusive interview to this newspaper at his South Block office on Thursday. "What India is trying to do in foreign policy is much larger than Pakistan," he told RAMESH RAMACHANDRAN. Excerpts:
Africa is a continent where we've had a number of good relationships over a long periodPart of our foreign policy today as a general proposition is to improve India's economicNext week I'm travelling to Liberia and Ghana. In October I have a trip planned to Benin.
No. It should not be a matter of concern to us because there's plenty both countries can
We have civilisation relationships with West Asia. Some of our relations with GulfWe have basically had two major pillars in West Asia: The first is energy security for us.I'm going at the beginning of October to Bahrain and Abu Dhabi. The Prime MinisterLatin America has been geographically far away from us but we have already developedThe President of Argentina is expected to visit India in October. There are similar trips in
On West Asia we have a very clear policy. We have been longstanding friends of theWe have very good relations with Iran. In many ways it is a civilisational relationship
We are in discussions with Iran on energy issues. The issue you are talking is the
That is not for me to say because I'm not the ministry handling that but my
I've been trying to argue that we need to make our young people far more conscious ofI'm not indifferent to Pakistan; on the contrary I believe that it is one of the most
Oh, yes ... fundamentally changed, because everything is different. I mean I have come
I think it's a welcome trend but equally we should use the ones that haven't come back. I
It's still early days. I think that I'm still fortunately in a phase where I'm learning a lot,
Definitely, I'm going to do that. In fact the MPLADS funds proposal is stil under review by
I've already tried to improve the functioning of our passport offices. I've visited a few;
I have specific ideas for reviving the policy planning function which in our Ministry over
Unfazed by the unseemly controversy over his stay at Taj Mahal Hotel here,
Shashi Tharoor had his sights firmly set on devising new approaches to policy and
planning in the Ministry of External Affairs, and on introducing innovations in passport
services.
The Union Minister of State of External Affairs and first-time MP from
Thiruvananthapuram intended to engage the best minds inside and outside the Ministry
to revitalise the moribund policy planning and research division and to develop a
thinking that cut across the turf of the existing territorial desks.
"The policy planning function in our Ministry over the years has become a bit of a
backwater. I intend to revive it and my ideas have been welcomed so far by the foreign
secretary and colleagues," Tharoor said in an exclusive interview to this newspaper
here Thursday.
On his watch, the policy planning division was set to become an in-house think tank or a
medium for independent analysis that will heed dissenting opinions and offer
appropriate advice to the Minister of External Affairs and the Prime Minister, as required.
Also in his crosshairs was the less esoteric but equally important issue of streamlining
the passport services. "That is a major area of reform and I feel it is important because it
is the only institution where the Ministry of External Affairs presents a human face inside
India," he said.
Accordingly, a pilot project for Passport Seva Kendra would be launched in Karnataka in
October. Similar pilot projects were running in Punjab and Haryana. "If pilot project works
well, we will extend the concept of computerised Passport Seva Kendras to 77
locations," he said.
Not one to shy away from sharing his perception of the truth, Tharoor said he did not do
anything "illegal, unethical or immoral" by choosing to stay at a hotel at his own
expense while his official residence was being readied.
"[A] lot of people don't seem to understand this is neither about an abuse of privilege nor
about misspending of government money, none of which has happened. I have spent my
own money out of my own savings working abroad for many years in order to live
somewhere comfortably while my house is being made by them," he elaborated.
He added: "My official accommodation is still not ready more than three months after I
was sworn in .... I feel therefore that I am the aggrieved party.
"This is a problem and many other ministers and MPs are inconvenienced. Today there
are 45 MPs in the Samrat Hotel here staying at government expense, not at their
personal expense".
And as if to prove a point, and to throw a gauntlet to his detractors, the tech-savvy
minister declared that he would use his personal website to publish how he proposed to
use the MPLADS funds in his parliamentary constituency.
"I'm going to make sure that every penny spent is going to be explained and accounted
for", he said.
'I'm saying think beyond Pakistan. I'm not saying ignore Pakistan'
How would you characterise India's relations today with Africa?
of time because India had the great merit on having been on the side of the anti-colonial
struggle. So I would say that we start off from a good place. Increasingly the focus of
most countries now is economic development. And there India has been, specially since
the India -- Africa Summit of last year, in the forefront of offering Lines of Credit and
investment opportunities, and has at the same time been able to offer one thing that
some other countries cannot, which is that we are able to offer private sector
involvement. So when I travel to African countries I am encouraging business groups to
come with me.
security by bringing in resources from the outside, but it is also to use our economy and
the growth and skills in our economy to have countries that need help from India, and
African countries do; they often look at us and they see in us a country that they admire
but which is not that foreign to them. Many African countries see that they have problems
similar to ours but we have overcome them or we have managed to rise above them, and
they therefore feel a certain sense of affinity which we can develop.
So Africa is very much on my agenda. It's a very major thing for our government.
Should China's foray into Africa be seen with concern?
do for Africa. As far as we are concerned the needs of Africa have always mattered to the
Indian Government going back to even before were independent. Our approach, our
style, our functioning is very different from China and I suspect that in some ways the
way we come in and function is particularly welcome. So without saying anything
negative about China I feel that there is plenty of room for us to be effective.
You also hold the portfolios of West Asia and Latin America. How are India's ties with
these two regions of the world?
countries go back to before Gulf countries or us were states, in the modern sense.
The second is our diaspora, which is present in significantly large numbers in all the
GCC countries, including Saudi Arabia. But we want to bring in a third pillar, which is
more economic cooperation, including investment cooperation.
himself was to go to Saudi Arabia; that visit has been postponed but that's very much on
the cards. I have already an invitation from Oman and Qatar and I'm hoping to do that
early in the new year. So a lot of serious engagement is planned with West Asia.
a very special relationship with Brazil because of the IBSA and BRIC participation but we
need to extend that. We have good relations and no political problems with any Latin
American country and I will certainly be travelling to them.
one direction or the other being planned by leading figures.
What will be the government's approach towards the West Asia peace process and Iran?
Palestinian people. We were among the first countries to recognise the Palestinian
Authority. At the same time we have good relations with Israel and our commitment as is
the commitment of the palestinian Authority itself, is to a two-state solution which would
witness two states living side by side in peace and prosperity in that region.
because we had interactions with rulers of what used to be Persia and then with Iran for
centutries and for us this is a relationship that goes beyond the issues of the moment.
We believe the people of Iran have the wiusdom to solve their own problems and we
have been therefore, shall we say, careful not to pronounce ourselves on the internal
issues of Iran.
What is the status of energy projects such as the Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline?
delivery mechanism of the pipeline and which as you know there are other issues
involved, including the fact such a pipeline will have to come through Pakistan. But we
are still in the market for buying oil and gas from Iran which can come by tanker.
Is the Iran gas pipeline project dead or alive?
understanding is that discussions have been going on but at a slow pace because of the
difficulties we have with the country of transit, namely Pakistan.
You've spoken about shedding our obsession with Pakistan in a series of speeches you
made in campuses around the country. What did you mean?
foreign policy and of international affairs. They are living in a globalised world,
globalising world as well, where inter dependence is the name of the game. They are
waking up in the morning probably to an alarm clock made in China, putting on jeans
designed in America, eating food that's come from different parts of the world, using a
mobile phone manufactured by Finnish or Swedish or Japanese companies. This is the
kind of world they are living in. They better know about the world and understand what
India is trying to do in foreign policy and it's much larger than Pakistan.
important foreign policy issues for any government but my argument is that the world is
large, we are very much implicated in it economically, politically, in terms of our
security, well-being, the growth and development of our country, and younger people
should know. I even made the line that foreign policy is too important to be left to the
foreign ministry alone and that many aspects of foreign policy are no longer foreign; they
affect you in your daily lives here. So that's the message. So I'm saying think beyond
Pakistan. I'm not saying ignore Pakistan.
Has life changed for you as an MP and minister?
into a new profession and discovered in fact that I am expected to two full-time jobs both
of which which are new. The first is to be the MP of Thiruvananthapuram which means to
be attending to the developmental needs and challenges and the issues for people of my
constituency and the second is the challenge of doing my job as Minister of State for
External Affairs and essentially it is one of the flaws of our parliamentary system that we
demand of our ministers that they do two full-time jobs. I think it places an enormous
burden on anyone who seriously wants to do both these jobs because you cannot
physically be in more than one place at one time and you cannot devote all your
energies and working hours to both these issues without to some degree neglecting one
aspect or the other. It is the way it is and of course many other MPs have faced this
dilemma ... so I'm going to have to work it out myself but that's been the challenges: The
challenge of reconciling these two lives is not easy, and I think that people outside
sometimes don't sufficiently appreciate how difficult it is for any conscientious individual
to do both jobs with the kind of total dedication that each job requires.
What do you make of the trend of members of Indian diaspora returning to India to live
and work here?
feel very strongly from my American experience that the Indian-Americans are a huge
asset to the Government of India because they work within their own new country's
political system. Senators and Congressman are not indifferent anymore to India
because there are Indian supporters, donors, contributors and volunteers in their
elections who tell them that the positions they take on India matter to them. So now
American Senatiors and Comgress people are influential on policy towards India
because it costs or wins them votes in America, thats the kind of leverage that we'd be
foolish not to use as a country.
Any regrets on your decision to join politics or is it still early days for you?
where I'm realising that there is great deal that one can accomplish through the
mechanisms we have. Somethings take time but I've come into politics with a conviction
that I can make a difference in peoples lives. I've come into this ministry with the
conviction that I can make a difference and ultimately I want to be judged and I want to
judge myself on whether I can make a difference either as an MP or as a minister or
both.
Will a tech-savvy minister such as yourself use internet to tell people about your
activities, for example, how the MPLADS funds will be used?
the Collector. So once vetting is over and the list is given I intend to publish it. I'm going
to make sure that every penny spent is going to be explained and accounted for and I
will be using the website for such purposes.
How do you plan to improve passport services?
I've alreay held a regional meeting of all the passport officers from the southern and
western states and I'll shortly be holding a meeting for the northern and eastern states;
partially to thank them for their public service but also to challenge them to do better;
partially to come up with some innovative ideas and partially to have more lessons
learned and experience sharing. I find that sometimes a good innocation in one
passsport office which could easily be followed elsewhere is not followed because they
don't know about it. So I used the meeting last time to have presentations made where
the lessons learnt was based on actual successful practice. So that's a major area of
reform and I feel it is impportant because it is the only institution where the MEA
presents a human face inside India -- all our services are provided whether to foreigners
or to Indians abroad but inside India the passport office has a major role. We're also
launching Passport Seva Kendras next year. We have a pilot project in Haryana and
Punjab and in our Bengaluru office for Karnataka next month. And if pilot project works
well, we'll extend the concept of computerised Passport Seva Kendras to 77 locations
around India.
What else will be on your agenda?
the years has become a bit of a backwater and my ideas have been welcomed so far by
the foreign secretary and colleagues. I intend to use it as a real policy planning office to
actually develop some thinking on areas of policy that cut across the turf of the existing
terrirotial desks and to engage the best minds inside and outside our ministry to come
up with new approaches to certain policy inputs which could then become the basis of an
approach to the Minister of External Affairs or as appropriate the Prime Minister, a new
policy orientation.
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