New Delhi
28 May 2011
countries because it is a battle that we cannot afford to lose, says Mark Sofer, Israel's
ambassador to India, in an interview to Ramesh Ramachandran as he prepares to demit
office after a nearly four-year tenure in India. Excerpts:
Q: How would you describe the Israel - India relations today, and what are some of the
high and low points of your tenure?
A: It is a relationship in motion, which started before I came of course, but, clearly, it has
an enormous dynamic of its own. If you look at the basic facts and figures, the bilateral
civilian trade has reached five billion dollars. We are working on a free trade agreement
(FTA). Next year will be the 20th anniversary of the establishment of India - Israel
relations, and, hopefully around that time, we will be able to conclude the [FTA]
negotiations. Some experts estimate that the bilateral civilian trade is expected to triple
in the next three or four years, so we are talking 15 billion dollars worth of civilian trade.
And the trade is finely balanced in terms of imports and exports, and it will include such
things as investment, services, and goods. In agriculture, a centre of excellence is
already up and running in Karnal, Haryana; a second centre will open in Sirsa, also in
Haryana, and a third probably will be in Nagpur in Maharashtra. We are also looking at
Tamil Nadu. I mean the sky is the limit. And, now we are embarking on a new negotiation
process for an MoU (memorandum of understanding) in dairy farming, etc. So, basically,
in every field of human endeavour, this relationship is in a dynamic mode. It didn't start
with me and it won't end with me; I am just in the middle of it. So this is a relationship
that is going places. One of the real high points in my four years here has been the
opening of the agricultural centre in Haryana. A vast population of India is dependent on
farming. At the end of the day embassies and countries interact to better the lives of their
peoples, and if we can cooperate on the main issue which faces the Indian economy and
social world, which is agriculture of course, this gives me the greatest pleasure. There is
nothing more inspiring or heart-warming than seeing farmers from far and wide coming to
look at Israeli technologies and incorporating them into their own small holdings. We all
like to deal with geostrategic issues, but, sometimes, it is these things, the nitty gritty,
that make a term of duty the beauty that it is. If you ask me, it has been the most
wonderful four years of my life working with the Indian government and people on not
just issues related to West Asia but related to the welfare of people, such as water,
alternate energy, agriculture, technology, and industry. I think that there is no doubt in
my mind that the low point of my stay here was the Mumbai attacks; of that there is no
doubt. Our prayers are with the families of those Indians that were killed, but the Jewish
people also were specifically targeted in that atrocity.
Q: How will the killing of Osama bin Laden affect the war on terrorism in general, and the
situation in West Asia in particular?
A: The world is a better place now that Osama bin Laden is no longer with us. But does it
mean the end of terrorism? Of course, it does not. Other such fanatics will come out of
the woodwork, they are already coming out of the woodwork, already planning new
attacks. The way to tackle it is concerted unified international action of all like-minded
countries. This is a battle that we cannot afford to lose.
Q: United States President Barack Obama's speeches on the West Asia peace process
have not gone down well with the government of Israel. How do you see the Israel -
Palestine peace process progressing going forward?
A: This relationship is rock-solid. There is no rift. There are differences of opinion, which
are natural; there are differences of opinion between friends and even inside a family.
That is a normal process; so one should be careful not to over dramatise it. If someone
is trying to find fissures [between the US and Israel], it will be very hard to find them, but
that is not to suggest that we agree on everything. But, yes, we are at a crossroad. We
do believe strongly in Israel that we urgently need to get back to the negotiating table.
There is no point in putting preconditions down because if we all start doing that, then we
are predetermining the outcome of the negotiations before they actually have taken off in
any seriousness. So we really have a great deal of difficulty in understanding in all
honesty why all of a sudden Palestinian Authority has placed this condition or that
condition. Secondly, this agreement between Palestinian Authority and Hamas is
something that places us backwards. Hamas, in a way, is West Asia's Al-Qaeda. It is an
extremist organisation dedicated to the eradication of the state of Israel and anti-Semitic
by its own charter and it has not moved one iota from the demands of the international
community that it accept Israel's existence, that it accept previous agreements reached
between Israelis and Palestinians, and stop massacring people. I must stress that these
are not conditions placed by Israel; these are placed by the Quartet, by the international
community, on the Hamas, and they have not met them. We do see in Mahmoud Abbas a
serious and pragmatic partner, we do see in PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organisation)
an institution with which we can achieve peace, but we do not at this stage at all
[visualise] the Hamas entering into that arena.
Q: How does Israel view the Palestinians' move to seek a vote in the United Nations
recognising Palestine as a sovereign country?
A: We, of course, disagree with it entirely. We don't have dozens of countries that will
support us. A former foreign minister of Israel, Abba Eban, has said that if Israel were to
propose in the UN that the world was round, the UN will vote that it was flat. Anything we
do in the UN is a priori geared against Israel. We believe that the way for the
establishment of a Palestinian state should be through negotiations between Israelis
and Palestinians, that is the way to move forward. Actually we are not that afar apart: We
both agree on a two-state solution. But, of course, the devil is in the details. A lot of
discussion is necessary, and it is not going to be easy, but scoring points is not going to
move forward any type of peace process in West Asia.
Q: How do you see the emergence of representative governments post the popular
uprisings in Israel's neighbourhood?
A: I think a moving away from authoritarian leadership towards democracy is almost
automatically positive. It cannot be negative when people are able to find an expression
of their views and freedoms that were denied to them. This has to be positive and I think
there will be positive spin-offs as well.
Q: The US and European Union have imposed further sanctions on Iran. How would you
describe the current thinking in Israel on the issue of Iran?
A: There is a difference between the people of Iran and the regime, and one must make
this distinction. It is so tragic that they have at the helm a leadership of hate, a regime
dedicated to destruction of Israel, denying the Holocaust, striving for nuclear arms in
order to carry out the destruction of the world's only Jewish country. Why should we sit
idly by when this is happening? And we won't. The Jewish people have suffered
throughout history at attempts to annihilate. Our supposed annihilators have always
been annihilated. We will never lose in this struggle against those who would do us ill.
When we say never again after the Holocaust, we mean never again. And when [Iran
talks about] killing and murdering Israelis, it is something that we cannot of course take,
and watch idly as it does this.
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