Lt Gen Asad Durrani (Retd)
a former chief of Inter Services Intelligence (ISI), Pakistan's spy agency
New Delhi
20 January 2011
needs to be understood is that peace is give and take and sometimes it involves
changes in position," Lt Gen Asad Durrani (Retd), a former chief of Inter Services
Intelligence (ISI), Pakistan's intelligence agency, tells Ramesh Ramachandran in an
interview conducted last week. At the same time, he says, the PPP-led government in
Pakistan is preoccupied with so many domestic issues that to expect a breakthrough in
India-Pakistan relations will be asking for too much. Excerpts:
Do you see the killing of Salman Taseer as a turning point for Pakistan?
I don't know. I don't think it can be described as a turning point unless you believe we
were on the mend, that the situation had improved. But it does put the clock back. It is a
particularly serious time and it does make the overall environment a little more tense, a
little more difficult to handle.
Have the right wing Islamists won?
Victory or defeat is not decided in a short span of time and that too on the basis of one
event because a large number of factors are involved. This battle goes on for ever and
sometimes one faction emerges victorious and at other times the other because of
internal and external environments. I'm not going to give my judgment but it is true that
there are people who have not condemned Qadri's (the assassin of Salman Taseer)
actions; such people may be in a minority but it has made the environment a little
intimidating. I see this phenomenon as a result of many events, internal and external,
the manner in which governments over a period of time have treated their people in an
oligarchy and many countries we know of are so, where ultimately decisions are taken
by the elites. The problem is people are not treated well, their problems are not looked
after, and this gives rise to angry classes and some of them find means to vent their
feelings. When people are deprived they find ways to react.
Has the space that liberals occupy shrunk?
The liberals are not good frankly; they flow with the tide, they pretend to be liberals. I see
them more as neo-liberals or extremist liberals. They are not in a position to provide
answers to the problems at hand but they raise a hue and cry.
It is said that Pakistan has more madrasas per square mile than schools that impart a
liberal education. Your view.
According to a survey that was carried out in Nawaz Sharif's second term as prime
minister there were between 12,000 to 15,000 madrasas in Pakistan of which about 250
madrasas were the ones which made the State uncomfortable and even these were
sectarian-oriented, not oriented against India or the US. The contribution of madrasas is
minimal insofar as their products are concerned; people who take up arms are not
products of madrasas, they come from universities, they are motivated by politics, not
necessarily religion.
Are the federal and provincial governments or for that matter Nawaz Sharif, the chief of
Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz, turning a blind eye?
More than Mr Nawaz Sharif the people are concentrating on the PPP. It seems to me that
the PPP is marking time. It is not coming out in support of all Salman Taseer stood for. In
a way it is wise on their part to keep a low profile because the environment is not
conducive.
Where does the Pakistan army stand on all this? Are they waiting in the wings, waiting
for Pakistan to ask them to step in?
No, not waiting in the wings as you say but praying that a situation is not created
whereby they are sucked in or dragged into because they have enough on their plate
already. The army as an institution hopes and prays they are not sucked in again; it was
the case after 10 years of Musharraf regime and it has been so after every military
regime.
Personally, where do you stand on the issue of repealing or modifying the blasphemy
laws?
It is not for me to take a position because it is not in my sphere of experience or
expertise. What I can say is the law has been very largely misused ever since it was
enacted because it offers scope for settling personal enmity. There was never any doubt
that its implementation has been misused. The Council of Islamic Ideology (the top
Islamic advisory council of Pakistan which gives legal advice on Islamic issues) has
made certain recommendations which should be welcome. For one, it has recommended
death penalty to a false accuser. Also, it has recommended that only the superior Shariat
court must hear blasphemy cases and not lower courts.
Why is the PPP government, elected with such hope in February 2008, unable to move
on India? What is holding it back?
The PPP is preoccupied on so many fronts internally that to expect breakthrough on an
external front such as India would be asking for too much from them. But if you ask me I
would not accuse the PPP alone insofar as relations with India are concerned. I
supported the peace process, and I believe the framework worked out was the best
conflict resolution model, if properly understood and implemented. But it got stuck
because making peace means compromises but India does not want to pay the price.
India believes Pakistan is suffering today and therefore India can wait and not make
gestures. What needs to be understood is that peace is give and take and sometimes it
involves changes in position.
What are your expectations from the government and people of India?
I don't expect governments to do much but people on both sides do believe the situation
can improve but people have limitations! Two years ago India and Pakistan agreed not to
let terrorism derail dialogue but where are we today? The problem is that the Indian side
is getting stuck in technicalities and bureaucratic which will not lead to breakthroughs. To
the extent that the investigation of the Samjhauta Express blasts has thrown up some
names, it is a step forward. But the Joint Anti Terror Mechanism could have been
followed up in the Samjhauta Express blasts case by incorporating agencies of both
countries, which did not happen.
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